Abigail Pogrebin
Abigail Pogrebin and Rabbi Dov Linzer are the authors of the new book It Takes Two to Torah: An Orthodox Rabbi and Reform Journalist Discuss and Debate Their Way Through the Five Books of Moses. Pogrebin's other books include My Jewish Year. Linzer is the president and Rosh HaYeshiva of YCT Rabbinical School.
Q: What inspired you both to create this book, and how did you collaborate on the project?
A: We met in 2009 at a conference convened by The Jewish Week, which invited Jewish clergy, journalists and professionals to talk off the record about the most pressing Jewish questions. Somehow we found ourselves gravitating towards the same sessions and intrigued by each other’s opinions, so we stayed in touch for years after the conference ended.
Fast forward to 2018, when Dov suggested to Abby that we have a real-time podcast conversation about the Torah, sharing our candid perspectives on how each parsha (Torah chapter) speaks to our lives and the national moment.
Dov Linzer
Tablet Magazine agreed to produce Parsha in Progress, and over two years Dov and Abby had a biweekly dialogue about the parsha of the week, until we had covered all 54 chapters. We would schedule a preparatory phone call to talk through possible themes for each parsha, but then we recorded without a script – totally spontaneously.
Many listeners told us they loved the spontaneity and substance, but couldn’t keep up with every episode; they suggested we assemble all 54 chapters into one volume and Fig Tree Books stepped in – to help us reimagine the conversation as a book.
We are truly thrilled that It Takes Two to Torah now reads as one narrative: we were two very different Jews (and personalities) coming together around a crucial book that belongs to us all.
Q: How was the book's title chosen, and what does it signify for you?
A: Dov came up with the book title and we instantly felt it was right because 1) it conveys both the fun of our ongoing give-and-take (and yes, we needle and nudge each other in every conversation) and 2) it highlights the primacy of partnership– studying with someone else, pushing each other to think differently and react more honestly.
Torah is hard to unpack alone, and so much magic and clarity happens when the text is parsed and debated out loud with someone you trust.
Q: The actor and author Julianna Margulies said of your book, “They give us permission to question and interpret the layers of the text and in so doing, realize that it is the questioning that makes us human.” What do you think of that description?
A: We so appreciate Julianna’s takeaway because it exactly captures our experience working on the podcast and the book together: Torah’s text comes to life when it’s challenged, and our lives are challenged by its text. Our very human, day-to-day hurdles, priorities, principles, and beliefs are instantly relevant in the questions posed by every parsha.
If there is anything we hope readers discover, it is that they are entitled to and invited to this ancient story – from whatever base of knowledge they have – and that when you open up these verses, they speak back.
Q: What impact did it have on you to write the book, and what do you hope readers take away from it?
Abby: I felt, for the first time, how powerfully Torah becomes the prism through which everything is refracted. Whether it was the protests after George Floyd’s death or the shock of the global pandemic or something as mundane as my synagogue presidency – I found that this book meets you where you are.
And talking to Dov – who invites me to kick the tires on ideas or plot points that have me stuck or confused – is such a rare pleasure because his knowledge is deep and his humility is just as expansive.
Dov: Working on this project with Abby made me realize what being a true learner is really about. It is not the amount of time spent with your head in the books. It’s about cultivating genuine curiosity and an openness to other perspectives that can at times be radically different from your own.
Most of my life is spent between the walls of the beit midrash, the study hall, learning Torah with people who think similarly, who ask certain questions but not others. Abby is deeply committed to Torah and to Judaism, but in a very different way. Our learning together forced me to see very familiar texts with fresh layers.
At a time when so many of us are living in our own echo chambers, one thing I hope people come away with is how we can develop deep friendships over a book that has endured this long for a reason.
Q: What are you working on now?
A: Abby is continuing to moderate the roundtable series for Tablet Magazine called “The Minyan,” which looks at one specific lens on Jewish life through 10 people who just happen to live that experience – for instance: Orthodox women, atheist Jews, converts, LGBTQ-identifying Jews, Black Jews, and Israeli ex-pats.
Abby is also collaborating closely with her rabbi, Angela Buchdahl, on Buchdahl’s book about her life and her spiritual vision for a life of crossing boundaries.
Dov is finishing up another book which will be a collection of answers he’s given to questions of Jewish law that rabbis-in-the-field have asked him about life-cycle events: birth, brit milah, bar and bat mitzvahs, weddings and funerals.
In his professional capacity, he is working on expanding YCT’s reach, bringing its Torah to new audiences and furthering its work doing in Israel – training forward-looking Israeli rabbis, both men and women.
Q: Anything else we should know?
A: We are blunt with each other in a way that’s refreshing and doesn’t waste time. And we make each other laugh, though Dov doesn’t always understand why I think he’s so funny.
--Interview with Deborah Kalb. Here's a previous Q&A with Abigail Pogrebin.
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